Comments on: Eclipse Top 5 Annoyances http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/ Beyond Being Backwards-Compatible Fri, 20 Aug 2010 06:54:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Robert Konigsberg http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-96 Robert Konigsberg Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:28:46 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-96 Of course, nobody really needs split pane support, but in a survey of one person, the editors that have that feature are way more popular than the editors that do not. Of course, nobody really needs split pane support, but in a survey of one person, the editors that have that feature are way more popular than the editors that do not.

]]> By: Todd Chambery http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-98 Todd Chambery Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:41:06 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-98 Ahti: To my mind, there are only two users: the aforementioned 70%, who want "end user functionality" (eg Column Based Editor, Web Tools, UML Editor, etc), and plug-in developers, who need componentry and detailed version info, etc. A single tool can't serve them both. The simple "user" tool should obvious to find and use--putting Software Updates under Help seems <i>very</i> out of place, given that without plug-in functionality, Eclipse is useless--like MonoDevelop, JEdit, Firefox, etc etc. The developer plugin installer should not be obvious, may as a checkbox that will cause the thing to disgorge the guts of every plug-in. Just glancing around the provisioning site, I'm not very hopeful--the emphasis is framework and not UI. I suspect the Eclipse team will leave it to 3rd party developers to provide a useful plug-in management facility (since this is a point of feature differentiation, eg Yokos, RSA, that MyEclipse thing). Anton: I know there's a column-based editor out there, and I swear that in the 2.x gen of Eclipse it was part of the distribution. You may want to look at the <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm/tutorial/" rel="nofollow">Remote System Explorer</a>... I think that added the column ruler at the top. Ahti: To my mind, there are only two users: the aforementioned 70%, who want “end user functionality” (eg Column Based Editor, Web Tools, UML Editor, etc), and plug-in developers, who need componentry and detailed version info, etc. A single tool can’t serve them both.

The simple “user” tool should obvious to find and use–putting Software Updates under Help seems very out of place, given that without plug-in functionality, Eclipse is useless–like MonoDevelop, JEdit, Firefox, etc etc. The developer plugin installer should not be obvious, may as a checkbox that will cause the thing to disgorge the guts of every plug-in.

Just glancing around the provisioning site, I’m not very hopeful–the emphasis is framework and not UI. I suspect the Eclipse team will leave it to 3rd party developers to provide a useful plug-in management facility (since this is a point of feature differentiation, eg Yokos, RSA, that MyEclipse thing).

Anton: I know there’s a column-based editor out there, and I swear that in the 2.x gen of Eclipse it was part of the distribution. You may want to look at the Remote System Explorer… I think that added the column ruler at the top.

]]> By: Ahti http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-97 Ahti Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:56:27 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-97 Todd: yes, I totally agree with you. But there is one minor yet critical problem why KISS won't work 100% here - Eclipse IDE is also used by hackers/hardcoders. So we really must serve all sides: 1. hackers/hardcoders who love every version and dependency bit 2. plugin-developers 3. end-users like regular java programmers 3. end-users like RCP-based application users Anton: No idea how this column-based editor looks like but I'll take a look. Unless you could send me a little screenshot ;) Todd: yes, I totally agree with you. But there is one minor yet critical problem why KISS won’t work 100% here – Eclipse IDE is also used by hackers/hardcoders. So we really must serve all sides:
1. hackers/hardcoders who love every version and dependency bit
2. plugin-developers
3. end-users like regular java programmers
3. end-users like RCP-based application users

Anton: No idea how this column-based editor looks like but I’ll take a look. Unless you could send me a little screenshot ;)

]]> By: Ahti http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-101 Ahti Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:53:00 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-101 imeikas: aa yeah, right! true, sorry, this double-search-form really is gtk linux related :) so not much to do I guess .p imeikas: aa yeah, right! true, sorry, this double-search-form really is gtk linux related :) so not much to do I guess .p

]]> By: imeikas http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-100 imeikas Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:21:47 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-100 Actually this second textbox is a search box and if I'm not mistaken, it is GTK only. Actually this second textbox is a search box and if I’m not mistaken, it is GTK only.

]]> By: Anton http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-99 Anton Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:13:10 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-99 Gimme built-in column-based editor support! Like IntelliJ IDEA's Alt+Shift+Insert! Gimme built-in column-based editor support! Like IntelliJ IDEA’s Alt+Shift+Insert!

]]> By: Ahti http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-103 Ahti Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:00:48 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-103 Wu MingShi: Good observation, it is a problem. Maybe "Recently used" category could help. Any idea if there is a bugzilla item for that? A new issue just came to mind is this duplicated Quick search/filtering. For many dialogs (including new file wizards) when you start typing it either starts filtering out the list using unified global filter at "right-bottom" OR the custom dialog-specific filter. They definitely overlap in their original idea - filtering and search. Window->Preferences is another good example of strange filtering technique - one search box at the top, another one at the bottom. Wu MingShi: Good observation, it is a problem. Maybe “Recently used” category could help. Any idea if there is a bugzilla item for that?

A new issue just came to mind is this duplicated Quick search/filtering. For many dialogs (including new file wizards) when you start typing it either starts filtering out the list using unified global filter at “right-bottom” OR the custom dialog-specific filter. They definitely overlap in their original idea – filtering and search.

Window->Preferences is another good example of strange filtering technique – one search box at the top, another one at the bottom.

]]> By: Wu MingShi http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-102 Wu MingShi Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:47:02 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-102 Ability to hide Wizards in New Wizard for the IDE interface. Everytime you install something, chances are you installed additional wizards. Put CDT/Python/RDT in and bang... its overcrowded there. Those "primaryWizard" are the pests of the bunch, short of editing the plugin.xml file itself, there is no way of removing them. Ability to hide Wizards in New Wizard for the IDE interface. Everytime you install something, chances are you installed additional wizards. Put CDT/Python/RDT in and bang… its overcrowded there. Those “primaryWizard” are the pests of the bunch, short of editing the plugin.xml file itself, there is no way of removing them.

]]> By: Todd Chambery http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-104 Todd Chambery Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:27:16 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-104 I'm right there with you the Update Manager. As I've mentioned in other discussions, what's needed is a higher level of abstraction. Users don't want or need to know the low level details of available plugins (dependencies, build numbers, etc.), what they need is _only_ the useful name and description of plugins contributing "user level functionality". GMF, EMF, Buckminster, whatever, have no meaning to the end user and so should not be available on the update manager. It really a simple concept (which is why it's so frustrating that the UM has stayed the way it is for so long): If your 70% user can't make a useful decision from some information, do not display it. I’m right there with you the Update Manager. As I’ve mentioned in other discussions, what’s needed is a higher level of abstraction. Users don’t want or need to know the low level details of available plugins (dependencies, build numbers, etc.), what they need is _only_ the useful name and description of plugins contributing “user level functionality”. GMF, EMF, Buckminster, whatever, have no meaning to the end user and so should not be available on the update manager.

It really a simple concept (which is why it’s so frustrating that the UM has stayed the way it is for so long):

If your 70% user can’t make a useful decision from some information, do not display it.

]]> By: imeikas http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/comment-page-1/#comment-105 imeikas Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:17:45 +0000 http://ahtik.com/blog/2007/12/18/eclipse-top-5-annoyances/#comment-105 You left out more stable subversion support, as sometimes funny stuff starts to happen. I would create some bug reports, but I can't even pinpoint where the problem lies or describe the anomalies. You left out more stable subversion support, as sometimes funny stuff starts to happen. I would create some bug reports, but I can’t even pinpoint where the problem lies or describe the anomalies.

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